Where? When? Here! Now!
Where did the church (as a whole) go wrong? When did we start to think that God blesses us to store it all up? Why did we think it is ok to hold on to what God gave us? Why aren't we giving out of our abundance? Why aren't we helping the unfortunate at every turn? Instead we are praying "God bless me. God send this to me. God I need." Then when He provides we hold on to it for dear life as if He is not the owner of the cattle on a thousand hills, as if He doesn't have more where that came from.
I've found that God is big enough to supply us with lots. Then when we've given to everyone we can find, we still have tons left over. I've found that God can take 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread and feed 5000 with plenty to spare.
Why does the church think they are the final say on salvation? When did we think we could take salvation into our own hands? Why do we think that works save us. Why do we try to put God in a formula. Why do we lay out certain standards to follow and only then can we make it to heaven. When did the cross become null and void?
I've learned that salvation is a matter of the heart. No one can pronounce you saved but Jesus. I'm happy to leave it up to him. I have no room to judge anyone for the way they dress, worship, or act. I can love them like Jesus would...with no strings attached.
When did we think there was more to God than just love? When did we think that there was something more important than love? At what point did our traditions and rituals become more important than just loving God and loving our neighbor? When did our agenda become more important than the one who created the heavens and the earth?
I've found that all the laws and all the prophets and everything that has anything to do with God hang on the fact that we love God and we love our neighbor. Love is all there is...there is no substitute. If we can't love someone, if someone can't sense our love, then there is something wrong with us. But if we could ever love like Jesus loved, there would be no need to argue. We would just love and accept the good and the bad.
When did we decided that we don't need Grace. When did Grace become a bad word? When did it become obsolete?
I know that I need grace everyday. I know that I am saved only through Grace, and Grace is the only thing that will keep me until the day of salvation. I realize that I am unworthy but only because God's grace am I made holy. Without grace, we are nothing.
I think we've lost sight of what's important. Here's my list of all you really need to know...
I've found that God is big enough to supply us with lots. Then when we've given to everyone we can find, we still have tons left over. I've found that God can take 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread and feed 5000 with plenty to spare.
Why does the church think they are the final say on salvation? When did we think we could take salvation into our own hands? Why do we think that works save us. Why do we try to put God in a formula. Why do we lay out certain standards to follow and only then can we make it to heaven. When did the cross become null and void?
I've learned that salvation is a matter of the heart. No one can pronounce you saved but Jesus. I'm happy to leave it up to him. I have no room to judge anyone for the way they dress, worship, or act. I can love them like Jesus would...with no strings attached.
When did we think there was more to God than just love? When did we think that there was something more important than love? At what point did our traditions and rituals become more important than just loving God and loving our neighbor? When did our agenda become more important than the one who created the heavens and the earth?
I've found that all the laws and all the prophets and everything that has anything to do with God hang on the fact that we love God and we love our neighbor. Love is all there is...there is no substitute. If we can't love someone, if someone can't sense our love, then there is something wrong with us. But if we could ever love like Jesus loved, there would be no need to argue. We would just love and accept the good and the bad.
When did we decided that we don't need Grace. When did Grace become a bad word? When did it become obsolete?
I know that I need grace everyday. I know that I am saved only through Grace, and Grace is the only thing that will keep me until the day of salvation. I realize that I am unworthy but only because God's grace am I made holy. Without grace, we are nothing.
I think we've lost sight of what's important. Here's my list of all you really need to know...
- God loves you more than anything. There is nothing that can separate you from the love of Jesus Christ. There is nothing that can make Him not love you. He loves you so much He died for you!
- Jesus wants you to take the love He gives you and give it back to everyone else. He doesn't ask you to agree with everyone or be the best-est of friends with everyone. But he does want you to love, accept, and respect every other human being.
- There is nothing you can do to earn your salvation. Salvation is simply a gift that God gives. All you have to do is accept it. Once you accept His salvation you will want to do great works for God because He's done such great things for you. But doing those great deeds doesn't make you any better or any holier than anyone else. It just means you're grateful.
- Jesus is more than able to provide you with everything you need. But he wants you to take what you've been given and share it with your world. Whether he's given you money or talent or salvation, you can share it with anyone and everyone. Although they may not accept it, offer it anyway!
I believe if we could grasp that, everything else would come...
Comments
you speak as though an act of tolerance is an act of love. sometimes, that's true. for a lot of things, that's true. but the path to christ is narrow, it's hard, and while there are many people that think they've found a path to salvation, few there be that actually find the true path to eternal life. (matthew 7:13-14)
if someone believes that all they have to do to be saved is believe, and that baptism doesn't matter, or repentence (and the fruits of repentence - luke 3:8) don't matter, then they're wrong. the absolutely least loving thing i could do is tell them, "it's okay that we disagree. just so long as you love jesus ...." that's simply not true. Jesus Himself talked about this - matt 7:21-23 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"
are we made holy by our works? absolutely not. my favorite passage of scripture is what luther called the great exchange - "god made him who knew no sin to become sin so that we might become the righteousness of god." 2 cor 5:21
the greatest act of love, kim, is to teach the people who have a partial revelation "the word of god more perfectly." it's not mean, or rude, or intolerant, so long as we are "preaching the truth in love." but to give everyone "the benefit of the doubt," as though the scripture weren't clear, that's absolutely the worst thing you could do to anyone.
I just don't see the purpose of God doing all of that if we can save ourselves. We have all sinned and come short of God's righteousness and only by the free gift of salvation can we obtain life. It is the Holy Ghost that does the awakening in our spirit and convicts us. Only by true faith in Christ's finished work, evidenced by the fruits of the spirit, is there salvation. I believe in Baptism in Jesus name and I believe in speaking in tongues but to say someone is going to hell for not following this pattern is not something I can do.
B, I don't know you, but we are all searching for truth in sincerity and love. My comments are not meant to offend or be divisive.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Both the John MacArthur Bible Commentary and the Matthew Henry Bible Commentary (strong, conservative, reliable Bible commentaries) agree that the "way" or "gate" refers to a path of salvation. The Jews referred to themselves as "people of the way." For Jesus to use this language, He was saying quite clearly that there are MANY people who think they are finding the right way, but it leads to damnation. It is a way that is easy to walk, one that is popular, and comfortable, and easy to enter in at. Bonhoeffer, in his excellent text The Cost of Discipleship, calls this easy believism "cheap grace." Jesus makes it clear that the proper way, the way that leads to eternal life, is not easy, nor is it popular. It is a difficult path. It requires discipline, and, because few find it, it is exclusive. As I noted before, Jesus Himself acknowledged that many would cry, “Lord Lord,” but they wouldn’t actually be part of Him. They even had services, prayed for the sick, and laid hands on people in His name, but without relationship with Him.
You say that I am stringing together a “code” of John 3:5 and Acts 2:38. I’m not. When I work with new converts, I walk them through the epistles, the gospels, and the book of Acts, looking back to the Old Testament to view the Bible as a whole. When new converts read the book of Acts and recognize that is is the only book that discusses how salvation takes place, they understand the epistles more clearly. The epistles were not written to be salvific texts. They are written to people who already have been saved! How were they saved? According to the example given in the book of Acts.
You argue, Randall, that they Apostolic doctrine is muddied and unclear. It’s not. Christianity on a whole makes it unclear, but these discrepancies didn’t occur until the third or fourth century, nearly 250 – 300 years after Jesus lived and the apostles taught, preached, and wrote the Bible. The bastardization of the doctrine of salvation occurred relatively early in the history of the corrupt Catholic church, but several generations passed between the doctrine that Paul said was “once [and for all] delivered to the saints.”
I know, I know, I’m a hate-mongering, divisive, exclusive, backwards silly Pentecostal that doesn’t see the cool “liberties” that you think you have. It’s probably too late, but your liberties will damn you, Randall. There’s rebellion from the top down, and you’re already losing doctrine. The standards went, now doctrine is going, and soon, your congregation will be nothing more than another Charismatic church that lost everything that made you unique, and separate, and a beacon of light to a lost and dying world.
We are not saved by our obedience, but by the obedience of Christ. It was His obedience to His Father , His obedience to His Father's will and His obedience to death which brought to us the gift of eternal life.
For by one man's obedience many were made righteous...
Righteous obedience is reciprocated as an outflow of loving Christ in return. We can only love Him because He first loved us. Jesus said..."if you love me, you will keep my commandments...
God's word is quite specific by which venue salvation is offered; to those who believe. It is more difficult to have faith than fear. A fear based gospel is no gospel at all. The gospel is "good news"...not "bad news" and how difficult it is to live for God. Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light".
Your Gospel is a fear based catholic step child by which your doctrine is perpetrated.
You speak of this narrow way as if Jesus was speaking to us. He was speaking to the Jewish community who would reject his Messiahship.
Rebellion from the top down? The greatest rebellion of all is against love. You sir, are rebellious against God by rebelling against his love.
Consider trading your sword for a cruse of oil.
Furthermore, the Apostolic doctrine is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. There is nothing else, to quote a popular Oneness Apostolic preacher, "if ain't about Jesus, it ain't about nothing." Acts 2:38 is preceded by a message from Peter concerning Yeshua Messiah. Jesus Christ the Son of God, raised from the dead by God who sits on the throne of David.
Baptism is a wonderful experience for a new believer. It is practiced by faith in Jesus Christ. His name is the only name given under heaven among men whereby we can be saved. It's because of Jesus that you and I can receive the gift God has given those who receive His Son.
In Acts 15, the Apostles told the new Gentile believers what was required of them; to abstain from meat offered to idols, to remember the widows and orphans, to abstain from meat which had been strangled and from sexual sin. Later, Paul would tell the Gentile believers to go ahead and eat meat which had been offered to idols.
Salvific standards are found in Galatians 5...they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Any other personal consecration is devotion unto God and should be honored as such.
You are welcome to worship God any way you like. You are welcome to honor him as you wish, but your way is not the only way. Romans 14 clearly delineates our liberties in Christ.
For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life...
Paul made mention of OUR obedience several times ... I find it somewhat disturbing that you speak as if our obedience has no bearing on our spiritual state.
"Righteous obedience is reciprocated as an outflow of loving Christ in return. We can only love Him because He first loved us. Jesus said..."if you love me, you will keep my commandments..."
A child can only love his parents because his parents first love him/her. That love is deposited and internalized into the child and a lifetime of loving relationship is mutually enjoyed.
During the developmental process a child obeys his parents out of fear, but that fear must immediately be overcome by love. Perfect love casts out fear. If not, the child will remain fearful his entire life.
If a genuine loving relationship exists, a child will honor their parents and walk in obedience, if unconditional love is not extended from parent to child, the child may appear for a season to be obedient, but will ultimately rebel in his/her heart. Rebellion is the natural mechanism whereby we look for love.
Many times what we are looking for in rebellion is right in front of us, but we are disconnected for whatever reason.
Our obedience to God can only come through our relationship with Jesus Christ. Paul refers to this in 1st Corinthians 12&13...
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love
Absolutely one of you best blogs. Take heart... some will always be unable to understand simple cause and effect. Some want re-enact the Gospel and believe that their re-enactment theology will cause salvation. We are baptized under the authority and power of His Name because of the remission/forgiveness/aphesis of sins He affords at the point of faith/repentance. We must be quickened to life by His Spirit for this "dead" man to have works that meet repentance. The baptism of His Spirit is a gift ... not the third punch on the ticket to Glory.
When we realize that their are depths to Grace that we will never understand ... He becomes "sweeter and sweeter as the days go by".
I thank God for what He has done in you life breaking you from the bondage of Neo-Phariseeism.
I thank God for the wonderous things He's doing in the Greenville Church.
Be blessed, sis.
Dan Alicea
When I first met Kim, she relayed a story to me that the pastor of the church was being persecuted, though he wasn't doing anything wrong. He eventually left the church he was in and started another, taking most of the youth with him. When that was all I knew, I sided with Kim, because she and I are friends.
Then, Kim and I were talking about the UPCI voting to allow advertising on television. During one of these conversations, Kim told me that it didn't matter; her pastor had been advertising on television long before the UPCI allowed it.
Let me make it very clear here - I've been involved with several Apostolic organizations, and I in no way believe that the UPCI has the sole gateway to heaven. I have much respect for the organization, and I choose to continue in the organization because I believe that it is the strongest organization for such things as missions and outreach. I am not a blind UPCI lackey, but if someone is willingly associated with an organization, then he has an obligation to submit to the rules of that organization. When the pastor bucked the UPCI's ban on advertising on television, he was being rebellious. THAT is what I meant by rebellion from the top down. When I found this out, I had a conversation with a friend of mine, and stated that with that kind of rebellion in the leadership, it would trickle down to the congregation. The standards would be the next to go, and then the doctrine. I personally expected it to take several years for this to occur, but only on that point was I wrong.
I'm not saved by my works, but I am saved unto good works. And if I don't manifest my salvation through good works unto the glory of God, then I'm not truly saved. My salvation MUST be demonstrated by good works, all of which, ultimately, do come down to charity, or love.
I've never been taught that we're saved by our works, but I do have a basic understanding of James - that obedience and good works demonstrate the faith working inwardly. Indeed, without good works as a demonstration of our faith, then we don't really have faith at all.
My comments to "In Christ Alone" are a bit condescending, but I'm not going to apologize - you speak in platitudes and demonstrate very little understanding of scripture. You want very desperately to be taken seriously, but you become redundant and unclear. Your metaphor of the parent/child relationship is weak and desperately needs to be redone in order to really make the point, but I'm not sure that the point is even a strong one. While some children obey out of fear, I believe this is the exception, not the rule. I've found far more children, both young and old, who obey their parents because of who their parents are, not because of what might happen to them. To argue that Jesus was only talking to Jews is a convenient way to make only particular pieces of the scripture, those happy, feel-good hippy Jesus parts, apply to us as Gentiles.
Never will you hear me argue that standards will save you or damn you. But I've found that rebellion against the traditional holiness standards of the Apostolic movement very often results, with almost direct correlation, in the compromise of the very essential elements of salvation - repentance, baptism only in Jesus' name, and tongues as the initial outward manifestation of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Daniel, you're a real single-issue voter, as I can tell from your blog. You broadly label the entire Apostolic movement as Neo-Phariseeism, which is unfair. But I think you misunderstand the role of baptism. I can see that you consider yourself an intellectual; take a look at the following link - http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/Acts238baptism.htm - posted by Jason Dulle, who discusses Acts 2:38 and the relation of baptism to forgiveness of sins. It is well-written and answers your objections quite well.
Now to my one point, Brad, my current pastor was not the one that started advertising on TV. My old UPC church was advertising on TV a few years before my current pastor ever came into play. Secondly, you can't use your "rebellion" arguement because I don't know of many pastors that follow the "Articles of Faith" to the letter. Go back and read the them all and I think you'll see that.
;)